piper cheyenne 400ls problems

After completing the CAPTCHA below, you will immediately regain access to the site again. As with any high performance airplane with many systems and basic all-weather capability, managing the Cheyenne is more taxing than maneuvering it. https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc&model=24E&listing_id=2394659&s-type=aircraft, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. There is no SAS or other device required on the I/IA or IIXL. 17 0 obj << /Linearized 1 /O 19 /H [ 1122 283 ] /L 38316 /E 23523 /N 5 /T 37858 >> endobj xref 17 36 0000000016 00000 n 0000001067 00000 n 0000001405 00000 n 0000001612 00000 n 0000001748 00000 n 0000002090 00000 n 0000002404 00000 n 0000006240 00000 n 0000006446 00000 n 0000007290 00000 n 0000007475 00000 n 0000007966 00000 n 0000008485 00000 n 0000008975 00000 n 0000009725 00000 n 0000010134 00000 n 0000017979 00000 n 0000018000 00000 n 0000018781 00000 n 0000018802 00000 n 0000019444 00000 n 0000019465 00000 n 0000020118 00000 n 0000020139 00000 n 0000020727 00000 n 0000020748 00000 n 0000021428 00000 n 0000021449 00000 n 0000022091 00000 n 0000022200 00000 n 0000022221 00000 n 0000022916 00000 n 0000022937 00000 n 0000023294 00000 n 0000001122 00000 n 0000001384 00000 n trailer << /Size 53 /Info 16 0 R /Root 18 0 R /Prev 37848 /ID[] >> startxref 0 %%EOF 18 0 obj << /Type /Catalog /Pages 15 0 R >> endobj 51 0 obj << /S 120 /Filter /FlateDecode /Length 52 0 R >> stream Two feet were added forward of the wing leading edge. The system met the letter of FAA certification requirements in terms of achieving stick-free longitudinal stability but it did nothing for, and possibly aggravated, long-period phugoid divergence (in something approaching English, if pitch input moves the aircraft away from its trim airspeed, it tends to accelerate quickly in that direction, then recover abruptly [pull up or push over] with the divergence increasing with each cycle). Because of the reduced power, initial climb rate dropped by almost 1,000 fpm compared to the original model, and maximum cruise speed fell by 40 knots. Serial #: 42-5527036. These are the PA-31T series, or Cheyenne/II, Cheyenne I/IA and Cheyenne IIXL (plus an unpressurized hybrid developed for the air taxi and commuter markets, the PA-31T3 or T-1040) and the PA-42 series, which consists of the T-tailed and longer-fuselage Cheyenne III/IIIA and Cheyenne IV/400LS. Right now parts support is very good. He knows the market and also has a straightforward way about him that belies his former career as a player in the National Football League. The IIXL is also the most versatile load-hauler of the all the early Cheyennes. 0000093845 00000 n has contracted with Isaacman Associates. CHEYENNE 400LS SPECIFICATIONS & PERFORMANCE PERFORMANCE STANDARD ATMOSPHERE CONDITIONS CRUISE SPEEDS - TAS TAKE-OFF DISTANCE Mid-Cruise weight (10,000 lbs) Normal procedures at 12,050 lbs (5466 kg) (Maximum cruise power) Lift-off speed (IAS) 107 kts (198 kph) 24,000 ft (7315 m) 351 kts (650 kph) Ground run 1425 ft (434 m) . the company would, completely out of character, do something either I don't have experience of flying any but from what I do know, the LS400 will climb much higher and appears to be a more 'normal' and comfortable airplane to operate. Interior cabin space is a frequent criticism. In the 400LS, they are flat rated to 1,000 shaft horsepower per side, and can make that power all the way up to about FL200depending on temperature. N47ZG | 1986 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS on Aircraft.com Earlier avionics and autopilots or flight control systems can present real headaches. My usual response is to change the subject and make her a martini. boring aircraft. A week or so after flying this I flew a Kingair200 thought on initial T/O that there was something wrong as acceleration was so slow compared to the 400LS. Another and even more dramatic As to the latter, the bluebook says $120,000 to $160,000 per side, and thats a lot, but Ive heard horror stories some apocryphal suggesting that once the engine is opened, it is not uncommon to hear that the price has escalated. launched with a pair of Pratt & Whitney PT6A-41 engines, was supposed to 2023 Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Max Operating Speed see POH for speeds above listed altitudes. Parts availability for older Cheyennes hasn't been a problem. The PA-31T3 is a hybrid of the Navajo Chieftain (unpressurized) fuselage with the flying surfaces and engines of the Cheyenne I. If you train for and respect the airplanes high performance, understand the IIs loading limitations, and look beyond the stability augmentation system brouhaha, the Cheyenne will reward you with pleasant handling, great capability, and classy ramp presence. startxref Ill never regret being responsible for her stewardship but I dont miss maintenance costs. important implications during ground handling. This is better than the Extra 300s 6.3 pounds/horsepower and the 7.3 pounds/horsepower of the spirited Beechcraft King Air F90. Piper Cheyenne 400LS PA-42-1000 - GlobalAir.com As a day-to-day business airplane, the 400LS is a fast and quiet airplane with an impressive cabin pressurization differential of 7.6 psi, providing a 10,000-foot cabin at FL410. Piper still stocks a lot of parts, but if a Cheyenne part is unavailable, Piper will still make you one. When the Cheyenne was first tested, it did not have the required traits in the climb configuration; little or no back pressure was needed to maintain 100 knots even when the aircraft was trimmed to 110. also included. In ground handling and during cross-wind operations it is especially troublesome, since it fights the desired control inputs. Magginetti notes: comparing the Cheyenne to other turboprops in its class (it) compares wellmaintenance costs are equal or less than that of the King Air, Conquest or Fairchild Merlins. Ours is one of only 44 total Cheyenne 400LS models built by Piper Aircraft between 1984 and 1992. What's not to like? endstream endobj 268 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/Index[6 175]/Length 29/Size 181/Type/XRef/W[1 1 1]>>stream Full power is set for takeoff and can be maintained all the way up to altitude and cruise. 0 In 1978, Piper came out with another version of the Cheyenne, the Cheyenne I. I flew the 400LS for a spell. And the TBM? The T-tail towers over the package to balance out the huge props. Piper still stocks a lot of parts, but if a Cheyenne part is unavailable, Piper will still make you one. The Cheyenne I was certified in March, 1978. Other records later set by the 400LS, again piloted by Yeager in 400LS N4118Y (later reregistered as N46HL) for the C-1e Group 2 class, were: Miami-to-Boston, Miami-to-New York City, San Francisco-to-Charleston, West Virginia, San Francisco-to-Cincinnati, San Francisco-to-Los Angeles, New York City-to-Paris, Washington, DC-to-Paris and Gander-Paris. PIPER Cheyenne 400 | SKYbrary Aviation Safety Early versions tend to be dark and cramped. Operated within their limits, there are few peculiar characteristics other than the pitch sensitivity of the original Cheyenne. The Piper PA-42 Cheyenne is a turboprop aircraft built by Piper Aircraft. View photos, ownership, registration history, and more. little doubt that Piper's PA-42 Cheyenne 400LS is the hot rod of the The Cheyenne could not compete with Cessna Conquest IIs top speed of 300 KTS, service ceiling of 35,000 feet and higher payload. Deliveries of production Cheyenne IIIs began on June 30, 1980. 1 answers and 1796 views Feb 23 2020. This reason they stop mfg chevenne 400Ls turboprop aor craft too. N7222F often pleasantly surprises ATC with its initial 4,000 fpm climb rate when asked for an expedited climb. Think it would meet your range requirements. Long-legged pilots are a bit jammed into the cockpit, especially in models with gussied-up interiors such as cabin dividers and refreshment centers which tend to impose on cockpit chair movement range most. 0000022771 00000 n Studying the Pilot's manual The Cheyenne 400 is that rare exception to the compromises required in aircraft design. Its a pretty unique airplane. 0000002637 00000 n The in-flight shut down and premature removal rates of the PWC PT6 engine family is impressive. TVw "O a ra.Jl8;yq6%b\u6LKfT-2x2;mpxWN*mBthB^sRqqG5UPhN'f+2Y0V"!1? From 1973 to 1974 America faced an oil crisis, driving fuel prices through the roof. Learn how your comment data is processed. Even if misuse or abuse of a system or poor procedures dont lead to an incident or accident, improper operation can easily lead to unserviceability and increased maintenance cost. Many of the systems are not as well designed and organized as in later airplanes and because of the affects of age (not to mention abuse and neglect). These airplanes are fast, efficient and beautiful. Pratt & Whitney of Canada PT6 engines power all but the 400LS, which uses Garrett (now Allied Signal Engines) TPE-331s. It sprouted the now-typical wing tip fuel tanks, PT6A-28 engines flat rated to 620 SHP and a redesigned flight control system that included a stability augmentation system (SAS) that became an item of major controversy and a blot on the reputation of the entire series. INSTALATION AFTER 10 UP. PIPER CHEYENNE Aircraft For Sale - 14 Listings | Controller.com PA-42 may also refer to, "Piper Cheyenne 400LS: Big Dog Turboprop Could Best A Citation I", "Piper Cheyenne 400LS Record Set by Chuck Yeager", "Quick Look: Piper Cheyenne 400LS, Rare hot rod performs more like a jet", "Chuck Yeager - Chasing the Demons for 72 Years", "Piper PA-42 Type Certificate data sheet No. No one seems to be able to explain the reason. The lack of suitable piston engines, however, was a major factor in the failure of Pipers own Fat Albert, the Pocono. The FAA code as written when the Cheyenne was developed called only for positive static longitudinal stability. 0000013531 00000 n PAY4 Executive transport aircraft. Too. They can significantly reduce the cost of a hot section inspection or overhaul by reducing the effects of wear and tear on very expensive engine components. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. high level of residual thrust, even at flight idle as the aeroplane was to redesign the interior for greater actual. I currently own a Commander 690 with dash 10 engines, gets me a high cruise of about 290-300 Kts depending on outside temperatures so a nice second place! and there are built in data recorders. Piper PA-42-1000 PA-42-1000 (Cheyenne 400LS) Engine: Honeywell TPE331-14A/B A Division of World's Largest MT-Propeller Distributor To learn more about this prop 866-717-1117 www. [4][5][6], The 400LS has 100-hour inspection intervals, engine midlife inspections are due at 1,500 hours and overhauls come at 3,000 hours. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. My first instinct was to check the autopilot wasn't on. The aircraft is not the easiest to keep straight on the centre line. The difference between the left front seat and a cabin chair can be substantial, especially if propeller-induced vibration is being transmitted from the aft fuselage). The fuselageis limited to a 15,000-hour life, while the wing and empennage have 20,000-hour life limits. 0000042546 00000 n The Cheyenne, according to the accident brief, hit the ground while in a vertical dive. Cheyenne 400LS for sale - Omni Jet Mu2 fits the bill. Ive known him for several years. The RVSM kit for KFC-400 equipped 400LS aircraft sells for $159,000 installed and includes a new Thommen AC-32 Air Data Computer and Thommen AD-32 Digital Altimeter, pitot-static plumbing and . Thank you very much for sharing your love of the 400LS. These trips can often be made nonstop in our Cheyenne, but a Meridian would require a stop for almost all of them. 0000107367 00000 n All rights reserved. Careless support can bite in terms of airworthiness, higher cost and accelerated loss of value. aberration must have given rise to the big Cheyennes. The imposing view is not just eye candy, eitherthis airplane has the performance to back it up. Some changes, such as a retrofit that reduces temperatures during engine start-named (surprise) the Cool Start Kit-and procedures such as regular compressor washes can have benefits beyond making it to recommended hot section inspection (HSI) and TBO (3,500 hours for all three models). All three can carry a good payload and sufficient fuel for from 900 to 1,000 nm with reserves. batteries are not fully charged or the aircraft is pointing downwind. This seems like a time for study, contemplation, analysis and thoughtful decision-making. An angle-of-attack sensor is mounted on the nose, and is connected to a downspring. first flew in October 1969. claim might be true. At altitude, you can pull the miserly Garrretts back to about 400 lbs (60 gallons) per hour for long-range cruise. That problem is the phugoid stability. The 400LS has the Cheyenne III airframe but is powered by counter-rotating 1,000 shp Honeywell TPE331-14 engines with four-blade propellers.The cabin normally accommodates two crew plus six passengers with a rear restroom or seventh seat. But Piper's product support is getting better. Flew one of these from Seoul, South Korea to the US (via Eastern Russia). None of these occurrences was surprising. ground clearance of a meagre eight inches. Apart from the inevitable abrasion Viewed from the front, the 400LS has perhaps the most exemplary impression of raw power of any airplane. It is an aeroplane that dies everything well. be a direct competitor to the staid Beechcraft King Air 200. Cheyenne 400LS' high-stepping ways. of the Cheyenne series, and Piper. But the Cheyennes character with the original SAS led to a wildly divergent oscillation, in the words of a former Piper test pilot. of the manual under: 'Tips for operators'. 0000013013 00000 n shown on page 43; Piper hopes to display. AN TOP SPEED IS ;360 KNOTS TOO. 1985 Piper Cheyenne 400LS airplane for sale located in San Jose, California. Our problem is that the right engine from day one has periodically and suddenly lost two or three quarts of oil. In October of 2019, with four occupants, we traveled through Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Ireland, Italy and back to Leesburg. Back in the 1980s, Piper employed Gen. Chuck Yeager to set various time-to-climb records in the 400LS. Each inboard main cell has two submerged boost pumps to supply fuel to the engine. Most of us know the addictive qualities of aso.com, controller.com and Trade-A-Plane. We have a former MU2 owner on this forum. Some owners report that the 400LS lacks the build quality compared to a King Air and its rarity can cause head scratches from mechanics who may never have seen one. This is not a gradual loss, but a sudden and irregular one. It takes about four inches of yoke travel to keep the plane level at FL 270. PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS condition is Used PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Total Flight Time PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS total flight time is 6,465 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Total Engine Time PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS total engine time is P51041 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Category PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS category is Turboprop Aircraft PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Pics The cheapest B models seem to hover around $1.4 million. 0000094191 00000 n Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association Find it free on the store. The 90 series King Airs and the Cessna 425 Conquest I are the only other similar airplanes in the PT6-powered category. What does an overhaul cost, anyway? It has a 98% dispatch reliability and its cabin is quieter than a King Air. %%EOF The oil is going out the breather tube, and the evidence is all over the underside of the right wing. Many airplanes have artificial aids for undesirable or unacceptable handling characteristics. HVMo0WfSd@ qaz{!m"[XO_ 'H'Si>'&YU,6{6e_6Wv?oXZEdMgKif40w_jI)B-a?ffd$d^SD'": It pays to experiment (but dont judge the affects just by the pilots reaction. 0000022086 00000 n Its empennage was enlarged for stability at higher speeds and altitudes, and its fuselage was strengthened. The airplane is fast and dependable and has a somewhat undeserved bad reputation arising out of its short-coupled fuselage and somewhat poor stability. Trim must be run to fully nose up during the final approach and then conscious effort made to put in sufficient, gradual up elevator (gradual to keep from ballooning) to touch down on the main gear. Thats a recipe for a bad accident rate. Chevenne 400 Ls with 5 blade perpillers has 1000 h.p engines too. Also With This Article Click here to view charts for Resale Values, Payload Compared and Prices Compared. Weve done the interior its still beautiful and painted the airplane in colors we like. Engine gauges are monitored for safety. 0000012785 00000 n When it came time to upgrade from our Cessna 340A, our primary mission of flying from Northern Virginia to South Florida had expanded to include transcontinental and European flights (as well as a flight around the world thrown on the bucket list for good measure). N40MV | 1985 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS on Aircraft.com The Navajo is arguably one of the best cabin-class twins, but its airframe was designed for 300-HP piston engines, not turbines that are both far more powerful and much lighter. Maximum speed for extension of the first notch of flaps (15 degrees), or Vfe, is 181 KIAS. Why is the hourly cost so high when only burning 60gph? In 1981, auto-ignition was first offered as an option. 0000092936 00000 n 2023 Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, JackRabbit Micro e-bike makes getting around easy, Vintage Electric rolls out most powerful electric bikes yet. Interior appearance and quality were improved with time, especially in the last two or three years of production as Piper learned to deal with the upscale corporate market. The computer also determines stall margin, commands stall warning signals and provides input to a simple, cockpit mounted angle of attack indicator dubbed the stall margin indicator. A standard Cheyenne I came without wing-tip fuel tanks, but they were available as an option, and almost everyone anted up. All provide reasonable comfort for average and even slightly longer or wider people. The Cheyenne I is powered by two Pratt & Whitney PT6A-11 turboprop engines, each rated at 500 horsepower and with a maximum propeller speed of 2200 RPM. Pressure differential is 5.5 psi for all three versions. 0000151773 00000 n How, she wonders, can you justify a $700,000 investment in a machine that is currently worth about $300,000, even if we had the money? How about a Cheyenne I that has those big engines? Most type-specific ADs apply to the original Cheyenne with the I/IA, not surprisingly, running second. I do know that when Piper modified the Malibu to make the Meridian, there were substantial changes. Aircraft: Piper PA-42-1000 Cheyenne 400LS. On the other hand, we were totally unprepared for the $4,000 annunciator-panel repair, the frequent heater and air-conditioner repairs and the little valve that controls the bleed air pressure to. The trick, as always, is to find the airplane that offers the most features for the money, fits typical mission requirements, and hits a prospective owners emotional hot buttons. Of course, high on the list of importance is speed.

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